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LETTER CXXXV.—TO JOHN ADAMS, November 19, 1785

TO JOHN ADAMS.

Paris, November 19, 1785.

Dear Sir,

I wrote to you on the 11th of October, by Mr. Preston, and again on the 18th of the same month, by post. Since that, yours of September the 25th, by Mr. Boylston, of October the 24th, November the 1st, and November the 4th, have come safe to hand. I will take up their several subjects in order. Boylston’s object was, first, to dispose of a cargo of spermaceti oil, which he brought to Havre. A secondary one, was to obtain a contract for future supplies. I carried him to the Marquis de la Fayette. As to his first object, we are in hopes of getting the duties taken off, which will enable him to sell his cargo. This has led to discussions with the ministers, which give us a hope that we may get the duties taken off in perpetuum. This done, a most abundant market for our oil will be opened by this country, and one which will be absolutely dependant on us; for they have little expectation themselves of establishing a successful whale-fishery. It is possible they may only take the duties off of those oils, which shall be the produce of associated companies of French and American merchants. But as yet, nothing certain can be said.

I thank you for the trouble you have taken to obtain insurance on Houdon’s life. I place the thirty-two pounds and eleven shillings to your credit, and not being able, as yet, to determine precisely how our accounts stand, I send a sum by Colonel Smith, which may draw the scales towards a balance.

The determination of the British cabinet to make no equal treaty with us, confirms me in the opinion expressed in your letter of October the 24th, that the United States must pass a navigation act against Great Britain, and load her manufactures with duties, so as to give a preference to those of other countries: and I hope our Assemblies will wait no longer, but transfer such a power to Congress, at the sessions of this fall. I suppose, however, it will only be against Great Britain, and I think it will be right not to involve other nations in the consequences of her injustice. I take for granted, that the commercial system wished for by Congress, was such a one, as should leave commerce on the freest footing possible. This was the plan on which we prepared our general draught for treating with all nations. Of those with whom we were to treat, I ever considered England, France, Spain, and Portugal as capitally important; the first two, on account of their American possessions, the last, for their European as well as American. Spain is treating in America, and probably will give an advantageous treaty. Portugal shows dispositions to do the same. France does not treat. It is likely enough she will choose to keep the staff in her own hands. But, in the mean time, she gives us an access to her West Indies, which, though not all we wish, is yet extremely valuable to us: this access, indeed, is much affected by the late Arrªts of the 18th and 25th of September, which I enclose to you. I consider these as a reprisal for the navigation acts of Massachusetts and New Hampshire. The minister has complained to me, officially, of these acts, as a departure from the reciprocity stipulated for by the treaty. I have assured him that his complaints shall be communicated to Congress, and in the mean time, observed that the example of discriminating between foreigners and natives had been set by the Arrªt of August, 1784, and still more remarkably by those of September the 18th and 25th, which, in effect, are a prohibition of our fish in their islands. However, it is better for us, that both sides should revise what they have done. I am in hopes this country did not mean these as permanent regulations. Mr. Bingham, lately from Holland, tells me that the Dutch are much dissatisfied with these acts. In fact, I expect the European nations, in general, will rise up against an attempt of this kind, and wage a general commercial war against us. They can do well without all our commodities except tobacco, and we cannot find, elsewhere, markets for them. The selfishness of England alone will not justify our hazarding a contest of this kind against all Europe. Spain, Portugal, and France, have not yet shut their doors against us: it will be time enough, when they do, to take up the commercial hatchet. I hope, therefore, those States will repeal their navigation clauses, except as against Great Britain and other nations not treating with us.

I have made the inquiries you desire, as to American ship-timber for this country. You know they sent some person (whose name was not told us) to America, to examine the quality of our masts, spars, &c. I think this was young Chaumont’s business. They have, besides this, instructed the officer who superintends their supplies of masts, spars, foe., to procure good quantities from our northern States; but I think they have made no contract: on the contrary, that they await the trials projected, but with a determination to look to us for considerable supplies, if they find our timber answer. They have on the carpet a contract for live-oak from the southern States.

You ask why the Virginia merchants do not learn to sort their own tobaccos? They can sort them as well as any other merchants whatever. Nothing is better known than the quality of every hogshead of tobacco, from the place of its growth. They know, too, the particular qualities required in every market. They do not send their tobaccos, therefore, to London to be sorted, but to pay their debts: and though they could send them to other markets and remit the money to London, yet they find it necessary to give their English merchant the benefit of the consignment of the tobacco (which is enormously gainful), in order to induce him to continue his indulgence for the balance due.

Is it impossible to persuade our countrymen to make peace with the Nova Scotians? I am persuaded nothing is wanting but advances on our part; and that it is in our power to draw off the greatest proportion of that settlement, and thus to free ourselves from rivals who may become of consequence. We are, at present, co-operating with Great Britain, whose policy it is to give aliment to that bitter enmity between her States and ours, which may secure her against their ever joining us. But would not the existence of a cordial friendship between us and them, be the best bridle we could possibly put into the mouth of England?

With respect to the Danish business, you will observe that the instructions of Congress, article 3, of October the 29th, 1783, put it entirely into the hands of the Ministers Plenipotentiary of the United States of America at the court of Versailles, empower to to negotiate a peace, or to any one or more of them. At that time, I did not come under this description. I had received the permission of Congress to decline coming, in the spring preceding that date. On the first day of November, 1783, that is to say, two days after the date of the instructions to the commissioners, Congress recommended John Paul Jones to the Minister Plenipotentiary of the United States, at Versailles, as agent, to solicit, under his direction, the payment of all prizes taken in Europe under his command. But the object under their view, at that time, was assuredly the money due from the court of Versailles, for the prizes taken in the expedition by the Bon-homme Richard, the Alliance, &c. In this business, I have aided him effectually, having obtained a definitive order for paying the money to him, and a considerable proportion being actually paid him. But they could not mean by their resolution of November the 1st, to take from the commissioners, powers which they had given them two days before. If there could remain a doubt that this whole power has resulted to you, it would be cleared up by the instructions of May the 7th, 1784, article 9, which declare, ‘that these instructions be considered as supplementary to those of October the 29th, 1783, and not as revoking, except where they contradict them;’ which shows that they considered the instructions of October the 29th, 1783, as still in full force. I do not give you the trouble of this discussion, to save myself the trouble of the negotiation. I should have no objections to this part: but it is to avoid the impropriety of meddling in a matter wherein I am unauthorized to act, and where any thing I should pretend to conclude with the court of Denmark, might have the appearance of a deception on them. Should it be in my power to render any service in it, I shall do it with cheerfulness; but I repeat, that I think you are the only person authorized.

I received, a few days ago, the Nuova Minuta of Tuscany, which Colonel Humphreys will deliver you. I have been so engaged that I have not been able to go over it with any attention. I observe, in general, that the order of the articles is entirely deranged, and their diction almost totally changed. When you shall have examined it, if you will be so good as to send me your observations by post, in cipher, I will communicate with you in the same way, and try to mature this matter.

The deaths of the Dukes of Orleans and Praslin, will probably reach you through the channel of the public papers, before this letter does. Your friends the Abbes are well, and always speak of you with affection. Colonel Humphreys comes to pass some time in London. My curiosity would render a short trip thither agreeable to me also, but I see no probability of taking it. I will trouble you with my respects to Dr. Price. Those to Mrs. Adams, I witness in a letter to herself.

I am, with very great esteem, Dear Sir,

your most obedient

and most humble servant,

Th: Jefferson.

LETTER CXXXVI.—TO THE COUNT DE VERGENNES, November 20, 1785

TO THE COUNT DE VERGENNES.

Paris, November 20, 1785.

Sir,

I found here, on my return from Fontainebleau, the letter of October the 30th, which your Excellency did me the honor there of informing me had been addressed to me at this place; and I shall avail myself of the first occasion of transmitting it to Congress, who will receive, with great pleasure; these new assurances of the friendly sentiments, which his Majesty is pleased to continue towards the United States.

I am equally persuaded they will pay the most serious attention to that part of your Excellency’s letter, which mentions the information you have received of certain acts or regulations of navigation and commerce, passed in some of the United States, which are injurious to the commerce of France. In the mean time, I wish to remove the unfavorable impressions which those acts seem to have made, as if they were a departure from the reciprocity of conduct, stipulated for by the treaty of February the 6th, 1776. The effect of that treaty is, to place each party with the other, always on the footing of the most favored nation. But those who framed the acts, probably did not consider the treaty as restraining either from discriminating between foreigners and natives. Yet this is the sole effect of these acts. The same opinion, as to the meaning of the treaty, seems to have been entertained by this government, both before and since the date of these acts. For the Arrªt of the King’s Council, of August the 30th, 1784, furnished an example of such a discrimination between foreigners and natives, importing salted fish into his Majesty’s dominions in the West Indies; by laying a duty on that imported, by foreigners, and giving out the same, in bounty, to native importers. This opinion shows itself more remarkably in the late Arrªts of the 18th and 25th of September, which, increasing to excess the duty on foreign importations of fish into the West Indies, giving the double, in bounty, on those of natives, and thereby rendering it impossible for the former to sell in competition with the latter, have, in effect, prohibited the importation of that article by the citizens of the United States.

Both nations, perhaps, may come into the opinion, that their friendship and their interests may be better cemented, by approaching the condition of their citizens, reciprocally, to that of natives, as a better ground of intercourse than that of the most favored nation. I shall rest with hopes of being authorized, in due time, to inform your Excellency that nothing will be wanting, on our part, to evince a disposition to concur in revising whatever regulations may, on either side, bear hard on the commerce of the other nation. In the mean time I have the honor to assure you of the profound respect and esteem, with which

I have the honor to be,

your Excellency’s

most obedient and most humble servant,

Th: Jefferson.

LETTER CXXXVII.—TO LISTER ASQUITH, November 23, 1785

TO LISTER ASQUITH.

Paris, November 23, 1785.

Sir,

I have received your letter of the 14th instant. It was not till the 8th of this month, that I could obtain information from any quarter, of the particular court in which your prosecution was instituted, and the ground on which it was founded. I then received it through the hands of Monsieur Desbordes, at Brest. I have sent to the Count de Vergennes a statement of your case, of which the enclosed is a copy. I wish you would read it over, and if there be any fact stated in it, which is wrong, let me know it, that I may have it corrected. I at the same time wrote him an urgent letter in your behalf. I have daily expected an answer, which has occasioned my deferring writing to you. The moment I receive one, you may be assured of my communicating it to you. My hopes are, that I may obtain from the King a discharge of the persons of all of you: but, probably, your vessel and cargo must go through a process. I have sincerely sympathized with your misfortunes, and have taken every step in my power to get into the right line for obtaining relief. If it will add any comfort to your situation and that of your companions, to be assured that I never lose sight of your sufferings, and leave nothing undone to extricate you, you have that assurance. I am, Sir,

your very humble servant,

Th: Jefferson.

LETTER CXXXVIII.—TO JOHN ADAMS, November 27, 1785

TO JOHN ADAMS.

Paris, November 27, 1785.

Dear Sir,

Your favor of the 5th came to hand yesterday, and Colonel Smith and Colonel Humphreys (by whom you will receive one of the 19th from me) being to set out to-morrow, I hasten to answer it. I sincerely rejoice that Portugal is stepping forward in the business of treaty, and that there is a probability that we may at length do something under our commissions, which may produce a solid benefit to our constituents. I as much rejoice, that it is not to be negotiated through the medium of the torpid, uninformed machine, at first made use of. I conjecture, from your relation of the conference with the Chevalier de Pinto, that he is well informed and sensible. So much the better. It is one of those cases, where the better the interests of the two parties are understood, the broader will be the basis on which they will connect them.

To the very judicious observations on the subjects of the conference, which were made by you, I have little to add.

Flour. It may be observed, that we can sell them the flour ready manufactured, for much less than the wheat of which it is made. In carrying to them wheat, we carry also the bran, which does not pay its own freight. In attempting to save and transport wheat to them, much is lost by the weavil, and much spoiled by heat in the hold of the vessel. This loss must be laid on the wheat which gets safe to market, where it is paid for by the consumer. Now, this is much more than the cost of manufacturing it with us, which would prevent that loss. I suppose the cost of manufacturing does not exceed seven per cent, on the value. But the loss by the weavil, and other damage on ship-board, amount to much more. Let them buy of us as much wheat as will make a hundred weight of flour. They will find that they have paid more for the wheat, than we should have asked for the flour, besides having lost the labor of their mills in grinding it. The obliging us, therefore, to carry it to them in the form of wheat, is a useless loss to both parties.

Iron. They will get none from us. We cannot make it in competition with Sweden, or any other nation of Europe, where labor is so much cheaper.

Wines. The strength of the wines of Portugal will give them always an almost exclusive possession of a country, where the summers are so hot as in America. The present demand will be very great, if they will enable us to pay for them; but if they consider the extent and rapid population of the United States, they must see that the time is not distant, when they will not be able to make enough for us, and that it is of great importance to avail themselves of the prejudices already established in favor of their wines, and to continue them, by facilitating the purchase. Let them do this, and they need not care for the decline of their use in England. They will be independent of that country.

Salt. I do not know where the northern States supplied themselves with salt, but the southern ones took great quantities from Portugal.

Cotton and Wool. The southern States will take manufactures, of both: the northern, will take both the manufactures and raw materials.

East India goods of every kind. Philadelphia and New York have begun a trade to the East Indies. Perhaps Boston may follow their example. But their importations will be sold only to the country adjacent to them. For a long time to come, the States south of the Delaware, will not engage in a direct commerce with the East Indies. They neither have nor will have ships or seamen for their other commerce: nor will they buy East India goods of the northern States. Experience shows that the States never bought foreign goods of one another. The reasons are, that they would, in so doing, pay double freight and charges; and again, that they would have to pay mostly in cash, what they could obtain for commodities in Europe. I know that the American merchants have looked, with some anxiety, to the arrangements to be taken with Portugual, in expectation that they could, through her, get their East India articles on better and more convenient terms; and I am of opinion, Portugal will come in for a good share of this traffic with the southern States, if they facilitate our payments.

Coffee. Can they not furnish us with this article from Brazil?

Sugar. The Brazil sugars are esteemed, with us, more than any other.

Chocolate. This article, when ready made, as also the cocoa, becomes so soon rancid, and the difficulties of getting it fresh, have been so great in America, that its use has spread but little. The way to increase its consumption would be, to permit it to be brought to us immediately from the country of its growth. By getting it good in quality, and cheap in price, the superiority of the article, both for health and nourishment, will soon give it the same preference over tea and coffee in America, which it has in Spain, where they can get it by a single voyage, and, of course, while it is sweet. The use of the sugars, coffee, and cotton of Brazil, would also be much extended by a similar indulgence.

Ginger and spices from the Brazils, if they had the advantage of a direct transportation, might take place of the same articles from the East Indies.

Ginseng. We can furnish them with enough to supply their whole demand for the East Indies.

They should be prepared to expect, that in the beginning of this commerce, more money will be taken by us than after a while. The reasons are, that our heavy debt to Great Britain must be paid, before we shall be masters of our own returns; and again, that habits of using particular things are produced only by time and practice.

That as little time as possible may be lost in this negotiation, I will communicate to you at once, my sentiments as to the alterations in the draught sent them, which will probably be proposed by them, or which ought to be proposed by us, noting only those articles.

Article 3. They will probably restrain us to their dominions in Europe. We must expressly include the Azores, Madeiras, and Cape de Verde Islands, some of which are deemed to be in Africa. We should also contend for an access to their possessions in America, according to the gradation in the 2nd article of our instructions, of May the 7th, 1784. But if we can obtain it in no one of these forms, I am of opinion we should give it up.

Article 4. This should be put into the form we gave it, in the draught sent you by Dr. Franklin and myself, for Great Britain. I think we had not reformed this article, when we sent our draught to Portugal. You know, the Confederation renders the reformation absolutely necessary; a circumstance which had escaped us at first.

Article 9. Add, from the British draught, the clause about wrecks.

Article 13. The passage ‘nevertheless,’ &c. to run as in the British draught.

Article 18. After the word ‘accident,’ insert ‘or wanting supplies of provisions or other refreshments.’ And again, instead of ‘take refuge,’ insert ‘come,’ and after ‘of the other,’ insert ‘in any part of the world.’ The object of this is to obtain leave for our whaling vessels to refit and refresh on the coast of the Brazils; an object of immense importance to that class of our vessels. We must acquiesce under such modifications as they may think necessary for regulating this indulgence, in hopes to lessen them in time, and to get a pied a terre in that country.

Article 19. Can we get this extended to the Brazils? It would be precious in case of war with Spain.

Article 23. Between ‘places’ and ‘whose,’ insert ‘and in general, all others,’ as in the British draught.

Article 24. For ‘necessaries,’ substitute ‘comforts.’

Article 25. Add ‘but if any such consuls shall exercise commerce,’ &c. as in the British draught.

We should give to Congress as early notice as possible, of the re-institution of this negotiation; because, in a letter by a gentleman who sailed from Havre, the 10th instant, I communicated to them the answer of the Portuguese minister, through the ambassador here, which I sent to you. They may, in consequence, be making other arrangements, which might do injury. The little time which now remains, of the continuance of our commissions, should also be used with the Chevalier de Pinto, to hasten the movements of his court.

But all these preparations for trade with Portugal will fail in their effect, unless the depredations of the Algerines can be prevented. I am far from confiding in the measures taken for this purpose. Very possibly war must be recurred to. Portugal is at war with them. Suppose the Chevalier de Pinto was to be sounded on the subject of an union of force, and even a stipulation for contributing each a certain force, to be kept in constant cruise. Such a league once begun, other nations would drop into it, one by one. If he should seem to approve it, it might then be suggested to Congress, who, if they should be forced to try the measure of war, would doubtless be glad of such an ally. As the Portuguese negotiation should be hastened, I suppose our communications must often be trusted to the post, availing ourselves of the cover of our cipher.

I am, with sincere esteem, Dear Sir,

your friend and servant,

Th: Jefferson.