Kitabı oku: «Abridgement of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856 (4 of 16 vol.)», sayfa 44

Monday, February 19

Bank of the United States

Mr. Montgomery, from the committee appointed, on the twenty-ninth ultimo, on the memorial of the Stockholders of the Bank of the United States, made a report thereon; which was read, and referred to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow. The report is as follows:

That in proceeding to the consideration of the said petition, your committee instructed their chairman to address a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury, requesting him to furnish such information or observations as he might think proper, in relation to the subject-matter thereof, as connected with the financial and commercial interests of the United States. In reply to which, the Secretary, by his letter to the chairman, referred your committee to his former report on the said subject, made to the Senate of the United States, in obedience to the order of that House.

Your committee have been attended by agents of the petitioners, who, in addition to the matters contained in the petition, have suggested to your committee that the object of the petitioners was to obtain the renewal of the charter in its present form; that, for this renewal, the bank is willing to make compensation, either by loans at a rate of interest, or by a sum of money to be agreed upon, or by an increase of the capital stock, by a number of shares to be taken and subscribed for by the United States, to an amount adequate to the compensation to be agreed upon for such renewal.

These agents also suggested that they were fully authorized and empowered to offer and conclude the terms specifically connected with these propositions.

Your committee, not feeling themselves authorized to enter into such terms, and judging that the extent of those propositions would better apply to the details of a bill, than to the adoption of a principle to be first settled by the House, have, therefore forborne to inquire into the extent of the propositions, and, without expressing an approbation or rejection of these offers, or giving an opinion as to the plan and reasoning of the Secretary of the Treasury, your committee in order that the opinion of the House on this great national question may be declared previous to entering into the details connected with the subject, recommend the following resolution:

Resolved, That it is proper to make provision for continuing the establishment of the Bank of the United States, with offices of discount and deposit, under the regulations necessary for the beneficial administration of the national finances, during such time, and on such conditions, as may be defined by law.

Wednesday, Feb. 28

Amey Dardin

Mr. Gholson, from the committee appointed on the seventh of December last, on the petition of Amey Dardin, made a report thereon; which was read, and referred to a Committee of the whole House on Friday next.

The report is as follows:

That the petitioner claims compensation for a stud-horse, known by the name of Romulus, taken from her husband, David Dardin, in the year 1781, for the use of the army of the United States. It appears that the said horse was impressed from David Dardin for the public service by Lieutenant Rudder, a Continental officer, on the 26th of February, in the year aforesaid, and was then valued at the sum of £750 specie. The horse was taken to the army in North Carolina, then commanded by General Greene, who, upon hearing of the valuation, ordered the said horse to be valued again, which valuation was still higher than the first; whereupon General Greene ordered the horse to be returned to his former owner, who called upon three persons to ascertain the damages sustained by the use of his horse, and they estimated the damages at £100. The said Dardin then received the horse as his property, and continued to use him as such until the 18th July, 1781, when another Continental officer again took the horse and gave a receipt for him, wherein the sum of £750 is mentioned as having been before stated as the appraised value. This procedure attracted the attention of the Executive of Virginia, and in December, 1782, Benjamin Harrison, then Governor, made a representation to General Greene respecting this subject; but the horse being by this time in the State of Georgia, and applied to the public service, was continued therein, finally disposed of, and never thereafter returned to the said owner. It also appears that this claim of Dardin was referred to the Virginia Assembly in 1782 by the court of Mecklenburg county; and, in a former report it is stated, and believed to be true, that Dardin accordingly petitioned the Legislature of that State; but his claim being considered as coming more properly against the Union than against any particular State, he did not succeed. He, or the present petitioner, was then advised that redress might be obtained against the officers who took the horse, and a suit was instituted in the High Court of Chancery of Virginia for that purpose, which suit was depending therein until the month of June 1793, when it appears to have been abandoned and was dismissed. With the exception of the fact which the committee have extracted from a former report in this case, that this claim was once presented to and rejected by the Virginia Legislature, (which is deemed a circumstance of no particular importance,) all the foregoing statement is supported by written documents, which appear to be genuine and authentic.

On the merits of this claim, your committee consider it almost superfluous to comment. The facts are conclusive in its favor, and no obstacle to its discharge can be conceived, except the lapse of time on this subject. The committee beg leave to state, that on the 23d July, 1787, Congress passed a resolution providing that all persons having unliquidated claims against the United States shall exhibit a particular abstract thereof to the Comptroller of the Treasury of the United States within one year. This was the first limitation that was adopted in respect to any class of claims, except those for personal services, which had been barred by the resolution of 2d November, 1785. The committee are of opinion that this claim was not included in the resolution of 23d July, 1787, because that resolution mentions only unliquidated claims; and the present claim was always liquidated and certain. The certificate granted by the Continental officer states the appraisement of the horse, made pursuant to the usage of the army, at the specific sum of £750 specie.

The next limitation to claims against the United States, and which it is believed by the committee embraces the claim of the petitioner, is contained in the act of the 12th February, 1793, which took effect on the 1st of May, 1794. On the 28th of February, 1794, the petitioner, instead of presenting her claim to the Treasury, according to the requisition of the statute of the 12th of February, 1793, presented it to Congress, who took cognizance of it, and ordered it to lie on their table. Her petition, and the only documents on which she could have succeeded at the Treasury, were retained in the possession of the House of Representatives until, and for some time after, the statute of limitations began to operate. Your committee have no hesitation in hazarding the opinion that in a case like this, between A and B, before an intelligent and upright, and equitable judge, the claim would be most undoubtedly sanctioned, as not coming within the spirit, although it may fall within the strict letter of the act of limitation.

Placing, however, this question out of view, the committee are still of opinion that the claim of the petitioner ought to be allowed. They believe that when a claim, founded in a fair consideration, and supported by indisputable evidence, is presented for payment, a proper self-respect on the part of the Government, as well as justice to the claimant, requires its discharge. They therefore submit the following resolution:

Resolved, That the prayer of the petitioner ought to be granted.

Friday, March 2

Mrs. Hamilton's Claim

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the following resolution reported by the Committee of Claims on the petition of Elizabeth Hamilton:

Resolved, That the prayer of the petitioner ought not to be granted

Messrs. Nelson and Taylor opposed, and Messrs. Root, Boyd, and Montgomery, supported the report – each at considerable extent.

At length the question was taken in committee, and the report disagreed to, 60 to 52. The committee rose, and reported their disagreement.

The House concurred with the Committee of the Whole in their disagreement – yeas 62, nays 52.

After some conversation as to the proper course now to be pursued,

Mr. Gholson moved that the Committee of Claims be instructed to report a bill, pursuant to the prayer of Elizabeth Hamilton.

The motion was agreed to by yeas and nays – 61 to 46.

Friday, March 9

The bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act for the relief of Charles Minifie," was read twice, and committed to the Committee of Claims.

Torpedoes

The bill from the Senate, entitled "An act making appropriation for the purpose of trying the practical use of the torpedo, or submarine explosion," was read the first time.

A motion was made by Mr. Livermore, that the bill be rejected; and the question being taken thereon, it was determined in the negative – yeas 27, nays 76.

The bill was then read the second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole on Monday next.

Monday, March 12

Another member, to wit, from Virginia, John Randolph, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Wednesday, March 14

Claim for Indian Depredations

Mr. Witherspoon, from the committee appointed on the fourteenth ultimo, on the petition of Alexander Scott, made a report thereon, which was read, and referred to a Committee of the Whole on Friday next. The report is as follows:

That in the month of February, 1794, William Scott, James Pettigrew, and John Pettigrew, of South Carolina, left that State, with a view of establishing themselves in the present Mississippi Territory, and took with them twenty-one negro slaves, with goods and chattels to the value of more than one thousand dollars; that they proceeded in safety on their journey as far as the Muscle Shoals, on the river Tennessee, where they were attacked, about the 9th of June, 1794, by a party of Cherokee Indians, who put to death all the white people of the family, and took possession of and carried away the negroes and other property. It appears, also, to your committee, that repeated endeavors have been made, at very great expense, to recover the aforesaid property, without any other success than the recovery of a negro child; and that the persons legally entitled to the said property are forever foreclosed from any remedy by which to recover the same, in consequence of the stipulations of the ninth article of a treaty made with the Cherokee Indians on the 2d day of October, 1798, which article is in the following words: "It is mutually agreed between the parties that the horses stolen, and not returned within ninety days, shall be paid for at the rate of sixty dollars each. If stolen by a white man, citizen of the United States, the Indian proprietor shall be paid in cash; and if stolen by an Indian from a citizen, to be deducted, as expressed in the fourth article of the Treaty of Philadelphia. This article shall have retrospect to the commencement of the first conferences at this place in the present year, and no further. And all animosities, aggressions, thefts, and plunderings, prior to that day, shall cease, and be no longer remembered or demanded on either side." By the above-recited article, the petitioners are wholly deprived of redress in the premises. If there existed any tribunal of justice before whom the case could be brought, the right of the petitioners to the said negro slaves and their increase would doubtless be established. But there is no court within the United States having cognizance of an action for the recovery of property held within the Indian boundary. Neither is it in the power of the petitioners to avail themselves of force or stratagem, whereby to regain possession of the aforesaid slaves and their increase, because they would be liable to punishment for a violation of the statute of the United States regulating intercourse with the Indian tribes. From these premises, it appeared to your committee that the petitioners have an undoubted right to the above-mentioned slaves and their increase, and that they have been deprived of all remedy for their recovery by the acts of the Government of the United States; that the voluntary renunciation of their rights by the Government gives to the petitioners a fair claim on the Government for indemnification. Your committee, therefore, under an impression that the aforesaid slaves would be delivered to the agent of the United States for Indian Affairs among the Cherokee Indians upon conditions more favorable to the United States than a full remuneration of their value to the petitioners, respectfully submit the following resolution:

Resolved, That the prayer of the petitioner is reasonable, and that the President of the United States be authorized and requested to treat, by such commissioner as he shall appoint, for the delivery to the rightful owners of the slaves and their increase taken from William Scott, James Pettigrew, and John Pettigrew, on or about the 9th of June, 1794, by a party of the Cherokee nation of Indians, at or near the Muscle Shoals, on the river Tennessee, upon such equitable conditions as to him shall appear just and reasonable.

Friday, March 16

Mrs. Hamilton's Claim

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill for the relief of Elizabeth Hamilton.

Messrs. Smilie, Root, W. Alston, Bacon, Macon, Clay, and Boyd, opposed the bill, and Messrs. Johnson, Sheffey, and Nelson, supported it.

The committee rose about four o'clock, and reported the bill.

Mr. Macon moved to amend the said bill by striking out the following words: "five years' full pay for the services of her said deceased husband as a Lieutenant Colonel in the Revolutionary war, which five years' full pay is the commutation of his half-pay for life;" for the purpose of inserting, "whatever may be due to her for his services as an officer during the Revolutionary war."

Mr. Gholson called for a division of the question.

And the motion to strike out was negatived, yeas 57, nays 54.

Mr. W. Alston moved to amend the bill by adding the following proviso:

"Provided, That it shall be made to appear, to the satisfaction of the accounting officers of the Treasury Department, that the said Alexander Hamilton ever was entitled to half pay or commutation."

The question on Mr. Alston's amendment was decided in the negative – yeas 55, nays 56.

And on motion, the House then adjourned, about five o'clock.

Saturday, March 17

Amey Dardin's Claim

The bill for the relief of Amey Dardin was read a third time.

Mr. Stanford moved to recommit the bill to obtain a more particular report on the claim than had been made. Motion negatived.

The passage of the bill was opposed by Messrs. Macon, Bacon, Pickman, and Stanford, and advocated by Messrs. Gholson, Smilie, W. Alston, and Sheffey.

[It was opposed on three grounds – the main objection being that it opened the statute of limitations; 2, that the claim ought not to be allowed, because the horse, for which compensation was asked, might have been reclaimed if the deceased Mr. Dardin had chosen to have received it; 3, that interest ought not to be allowed on the sum at which the horse was valued.]

The bill was passed – yeas 82, nays 24.

Mrs. Hamilton's Claim

The consideration of the bill for the relief of Mrs. Hamilton was called for.

Mr. Wynn moved to adjourn. For it, 23.

Mr. Root moved to postpone the further consideration of it till Friday next. Negatived, 57 to 43.

Mr. Root opposed the bill at length, and Mr. Fisk replied.

The question "Shall the bill be engrossed for a third reading?" was then taken and carried, by yeas and nays.

On the question, when the bill should be read a third time, Mr. Root named Friday, and Mr. Nelson to-day.

For Friday 44 – For Monday 50.

To-day was fixed as the day; and a motion was made by Mr. T. Moore to adjourn. Lost, 63 to 50.

The bill was read a third time and passed, 63 to 53, the votes being precisely the same as those last taken, except that Mr. R. Brown was absent on this vote.

Monday, March 26

Torpedo Experiment

The bill making an appropriation for the purpose of making an experiment on the practical use of the torpedo, or submarine explosion, was taken up.

Mr. Dana, said that the question now before the House did not relate to any degree of reputation which any individual might claim for any invention, nor to any interest he might have in any discovery he had made. The question was, whether this proposition now appeared before the House under such circumstances that they should step out of the ordinary course of encouragement, given by law to inventors, to provide the means of making an experiment at the public expense. This, Mr. D. said, was the simple inquiry to be made; and, however eminent or distinguished in the walks of science, or however irradiated by the splendor of genius, it belonged to no individual to demand of the Legislature that they should adopt any system previous to its utility being ascertained. No individual could arrogate it to himself; and, when any individual pressed himself upon the Legislature, it was a question whether this experiment was worthy to be made; whether the invention promised any possible good worthy of this experiment.

Mr. D. said he had no wish to detain the House, but he had really doubted, for himself, whether, with the views he entertained on this subject, it was compatible with the respect due to the House to withhold some of the sentiments which occurred to him in opposition to this bill. In every instance in which a sum of money had heretofore been appropriated to encourage inventions, it had been for some object admitted to be of value, for something intended to be of use, and which, prior to making the appropriation in relation to it, had been, in a degree, examined. This, however, was a thing which, on the face of it, appropriated a sum of money for the purpose of making experiments to ascertain the use of the invention. It was therefore, perhaps, the first appropriation of the kind ever proposed.

Mr. D. said he did not perceive that any experiment could be made, in time of peace, to ascertain this thing, so as to decide the question of the practical use of the torpedo; for, with respect to every question stated in the publication laid on the table, with respect to any principle which the inventor proposed to establish by any specific experiment, with respect to any question which related to natural agents or their physical effect, he thought it proper to admit the whole.

In the first place, Mr. D. said that he admitted that the explosive force of gunpowder, placed at the keel, might destroy any ship. Another thing he would admit, that a person might deposit powder in a metallic case, which should remain under water; that the case might be made water-tight, and that the clock-work contained in it might be put in motion. He would admit, also, that this machine might be balanced so that its gravity should be nearly equal to that of the water; that the action of the current or tide might bear such a magazine, so specifically apportioned, beneath the bottom of the vessel.

But, when all these things were admitted, Mr. Dana said that he did not perceive that any one point was gained as respected the object of the experiment, for it must be considered that all this experiment could only go to decide the action of natural physical powers, where the efforts of genius were not combined.

As respects the whole of the thing itself, as far as I understand it, I perceive nothing new in it. I do not conceive that, on this subject, there is any thing very novel in point of principle. There may be something in the modification of it; but, as respects the main principle, there is nothing new. The idea was started during the war of the American Revolution, and various experiments were made on it. The Commander-in-Chief of the Army of the United States, at that time, was not, as I have understood, impressed himself with much confidence in the experiment. But a gentleman of his family, and an officer of his army, who had more confidence in it, made the experiment; and, ultimately, the experiment was pretty much given up.

As he did not speak at random, Mr. D. asked leave to call the attention of the House to the principles of the invention of David Bushnell, of Connecticut. [Mr. D. here read, from the Philosophical Transactions, an account of a machine invented by Mr. Bushnell, in many respects similar to that invented by Mr. Fulton.]

The principal difference between these two inventions, Mr. D. said, appeared to be in the mode of conveying the machine to the keel of the ship. The plan of Mr. Fulton was, instead of conveying it by means of a diving-boat, to convey it by the action of the current to the place where it was to operate. To do this he proposed two modes. As respected the first, the action of the current on the torpedo placed obliquely, Mr. D. said he had no doubt. It was the principle on which the helmsman steers his ship, and the seaman manages his sails; the principle on which boats are made to pass ferries by the oblique action of the current. As respected the second mode, the use of the harpoon-gun, there was no novelty in that certainly. It had been used in Europe in the whale fishery, where they were not trained in this species of fishing so as to produce dexterity in throwing the harpoon. Premiums had been given, and attempts made to discharge a harpoon from a ring and rope attached to it, at the distance of ten fathoms, which was a greater distance than the most experienced and skilful could strike with effect.

The question which Mr. D. said he proposed, was, whether obstacles could not be interposed by naval men. As respected firing the harpoon-gun, he should suppose it a want of skill or attention in the experiment if it failed to take effect. That a harpoon might be fired into a vessel, that the torpedo would go under her, and that a vessel which could be bought for $5,000, might be blown up in this way, he had no doubt; but when all this is done, what does it ascertain? As respects making a torpedo, any person who is in the neighborhood of a good gun and locksmith, and has good powder, can construct one. Mr. D. said he did not see the necessity of spending this sum of money rather for amusement than for any thing else. He did not see the necessity of it, because he did not perceive any one thing to be learnt from an experiment. He was, therefore, against the bill.

Mr. Lyon said that the gentleman from Connecticut had shown his own conviction of the utility of torpedoes, and it would be worth while to give five thousand dollars to establish the same conviction in others. If I had the twentieth part of the certainty on the subject which that gentleman has, said Mr. L., I should not vote for the experiment. I have no desire, in voting for any thing of this kind, to give up any other kind of defence. I know it is all-important in us to defend our ports and harbors. If it was not for our extensive seacoast, I should not be so extremely averse to going to war. I would leave no means untried to protect this seacoast. However little the hope might be, if there was the least thing to hang hope on, I would give $5,000 for the experiment. I have voted for the highest sum ever called for, for the defence of New York; but still, when I look to the steeples of the fine churches, and to the banks, &c., of that city, exposed as it is and must be, I am struck with horror. Notwithstanding all the exertions which have ever been made for them, they must still be insecure. If $5,000 would carry conviction as far on the rest of the House as with the gentleman from Connecticut, the money would be well laid out to enable us to go on with a further experiment of this plan.

The gentleman from Connecticut read a long history of the torpedo experiment made many years ago. I believe, sir, Mr. Fulton has but little merit in originating the thing. Let gentlemen recollect what an alarm this thing made, and how uneasy the British were during the Revolutionary war, till they thought they had got rid of these machines. I cannot forget the alarm which they excited, and will take the liberty to quote Hopkinson on the subject, who was a witness to the transaction:

 
"'T was early day, as poets say,
Just when the sun was rising,
A soldier stood on log of wood,
And saw a sight surprising.
 
 
"As in amaze he stood to gaze,
The truth can't be denied, sir,
He spied a score of kegs, or more,
Come floating down the tide, sir.
 
 
"A sailor, too, in jerkin blue,
The strange appearance viewing,
First damn'd his eyes, in great surprise,
Then said – 'some mischief's brewing.'
 
 
"These kegs now hold the rebels bold,
Pack'd up like pickled herring,
And they 're come down, t' attack the town
In this new way of ferry'ng.
 
 
"The soldier flew – the sailor too,
And, scar'd almost to death, sir,
Wore out their shoes to spread the news,
And ran till out of breath, sir.
 
 
"Now up and down, throughout the town,
Most frantic scenes were acted;
And some ran here, and some ran there,
Like men almost distracted.
 
 
"Some fire cried, which some denied,
But said the earth had quaked;
And girls and boys, with hideous noise.
Ran through the town half naked." &c. &c.
 

If a parcel of kegs, in those days, alarmed them so much, what will Fulton's torpedoes do now?

Mr. McKim said, that what had fallen from the gentleman from Connecticut had operated powerfully on his mind to satisfy him of the propriety of the appropriation. He says, observed Mr. McK., that he has no doubt they will produce the desired effect. Now, sir, when I am informed, from so respectable a source, of their effect when properly placed under the ship, I am induced to vote for this appropriation. If one of these machines in a hundred should take effect, the object would be perfectly gained. If we could only blow up one or two in a squadron, we should not hereafter be disturbed by British squadrons in our waters. I have listened with great pleasure to the lecture of the gentleman on pneumatics, hydraulics, &c., for I know not where I could have derived so much information as from that gentleman, and I take the opportunity of returning my thanks to him.

Mr. Fisk said he was against the bill, but from different reasons than other gentlemen were. I do believe, said he, that in some cases, the anchored torpedoes may be effectual; but I do not believe that any thing to result from this bill will be of service to the country. I do not entertain any doubt that a vessel may be blown up. The explosion will take place, the wreck will be left in the bed of the river, and it may cost $5,000 to raise it, or it may remain as an obstacle to the invasion of the capital. If Congress are at this time seriously to resort to the torpedo system of defence, let us do it in a more serious manner; let us make a respectable provision to purchase torpedo munition, and create a torpedo corps under certain regulations. We have got military and naval armaments; let us make a torpedo armament. At the same time, it was but justice to the inventor to say, that he considered the anchored torpedo as a very useful invention. Mr. F. moved to recommit the bill, to inquire into the propriety of appropriating such a sum of money as the Secretary of the Navy should deem adequate to the object, for the sum proposed certainly was not.

Mr. Quincy said he agreed with the gentleman from New York in his opposition to the bill, because, if a fair experiment was intended, the appropriation was totally insufficient. This morning, in a conversation with the Secretary of the Navy, I understood that this sum will not enable a vessel to be placed in that situation which will give a fair experiment. If we pass this bill, it will be utterly useless to the purpose proposed. If the object be to have gentlemen who never saw such a thing gratified with an explosion, that object will be attained, but no other. Let us have an estimate from the Secretary of the Navy of the probable expense, or the whole sum appropriated may be lost, and the law will prove utterly disgraceful to those who passed it.

Mr. Holland said he had understood from the torpedo inventor himself, that $5,000 would be amply sufficient.

Mr. Dana said he had no belief that any vessel could be purchased for five thousand dollars, on which a sufficient experiment could be made. He conceived that the experiment could only be made in hostile operations. We are told that these torpedoes would destroy the navy in the British channel. Do we doubt the inveteracy of the French hatred of the British navy when it has existed so many years? If this invention would command the British Channel – and millions are but dust in the balance for this object – to enable Bonaparte to strike at the British soil, why has not the invention been patronized by France? It has been rejected by France, and rejected by England after an expense of hundreds of thousands of dollars – and now are we to take it up? It is as a stationary resistance to be made to a naval force where there are fortresses also, that the torpedo may be made use of, if they can be used at all; where chains, or chevaux-de-frises are made use of, it may be made use of as auxiliary to other aids in terrifying the enemy. As to setting these machines afloat, firing harpoons into vessels, calculating the chance of boats getting away when a single shot may send them to the bottom, I have no opinion of it at all.

Mr. Lyon said he would not vote for recommitment, not that he had not rather that ten thousand dollars were appropriated than five thousand; but the House had the Senate's opinion on that point before them. He agreed with gentlemen entirely, that there never could be a complete experiment until time of war. But that was no reason why we should not, before war came, be in a fair state to try the experiment in war.